Posts by Lady Lee

44

WORLDWIDE LETTER MAILED

by Dogpatch in

jw
friends

on or about june 30, 2002, thousands of jehovah's witness elders around the world received a letter from "the worldwide .

christian community" urging them fully to take on their voluntary responsibility as "shepherds of the flock of god" .

with respect to child molestation that occurs among their "flock.

Lady Lee

Thousands of letters? Really? Awesome

110

Where is the proof Jehovahs people abuse children?

by Bleep in

here is what this "special topic" describes with deadly false propaganda.. "a person might ask why we would single out the witnesses in this matter.

as with other fundamentalist cults, the watchtower goes by the bible advice only when it comes to exposing crimes regarding children or anyone else, that there must be two or more witnesses to a crime.

since abuse and molestation are rarely seen by anyone other than the perpetrator and the victim (and the victim will rarely testify against himself), perhaps hundreds or thousands of cases have gone unpunished, and the perpetrator has not been brought to the police, and the congregation has not been told.

Lady Lee

Bleep get your head out of the water. You asked us a question. You got many answers. You reject them all. When presented with a question so that we can better respond to your question you say

Try not to point the finger towards me to answer the question since I am the one who asked.

I don't get it. Are you just trying to be difficult? Why bother to ask a question if you are not willing to accept the answer or explain the question so that we can give you an answer you would accept - other than having us lie.

One more thing. It boggles the mind how when I tell people who are not JWs about the abuse I have gone through they all express their concern. But few JWs do that. Why? Where is the Christian love? Where is the concern that maybe your elders are not doing their jobs? Where is your concern that your children could be abused? Where are you behaving as Christ would in tending to his sheep?

110

Where is the proof Jehovahs people abuse children?

by Bleep in

here is what this "special topic" describes with deadly false propaganda.. "a person might ask why we would single out the witnesses in this matter.

as with other fundamentalist cults, the watchtower goes by the bible advice only when it comes to exposing crimes regarding children or anyone else, that there must be two or more witnesses to a crime.

since abuse and molestation are rarely seen by anyone other than the perpetrator and the victim (and the victim will rarely testify against himself), perhaps hundreds or thousands of cases have gone unpunished, and the perpetrator has not been brought to the police, and the congregation has not been told.

Lady Lee

Bleep You're not answering the question. What would you consider proof?

I am proof of a cover-up on child sexual abuse. I have written extensively here and elsewhere on the internet about it. I won't post it here because I am sure many here have read my story til they are sick of it. But I waited 38 years for the elders to do something about the man who abused me as a child. I have waited 17 years for the elders to do something about my ex-husband who they allowed to remarry and then abuse his new family so much that they too left him. And now I find out he is living in the Kingdom Hall

There are stories here on this site. There are hundreds of stories on the SilentLambs website. It has been in the courts and in the media.

What would you consider proof?

43

This site is very misleading!!!

by IrishDancinJames in

this website is very misleading!

it says its for jehovahs witnesses, for brothers and sisters!!!

and this site is no such thing!

Lady Lee

This website is very misleading! It says its FOR Jehovahs Witnesses, FOR brothers and sisters!!!

Actually what it says is:

Discussion Forum for anything JW related

Guess that must mean

We're related!!!! All of us!!!! WooHoo

Edited by - Lady Lee on 1 July 2002 18:30:48

98

Why is Hope a good quality?

by Bleep in

looks like someone on this forum hates this word hope.

hope is a great thing to have for all christain.. it is one of the best things a true christain can have.. the bible gives us alot of hope.. lets use it in our everyday lives.

we have bible understanding threw research do we not?

Lady Lee

Bleep siad:

The watchtower does not make much profit. "Drink lifes water FREE"

What are you talking about? You might want to back that up before everyone pounces on you

98

Why is Hope a good quality?

by Bleep in

looks like someone on this forum hates this word hope.

hope is a great thing to have for all christain.. it is one of the best things a true christain can have.. the bible gives us alot of hope.. lets use it in our everyday lives.

we have bible understanding threw research do we not?

Lady Lee

My vision of:

HOPE

I heard a story the other day,
that chilled me to the bone
About a man who took a child
and made her all his own.

He put the fear and pain
into her soul that dayFear paralyzed her body;
fear let him have his way.

She died inside a little,
every time he cameAnd every time he took her,
she was less and less the same.

He called her names to hurt her,
slut and whore and bitchAnd when he finished with her,
left her in a ditch.

She pulled herself together and
vowed to make her "new"And 'cause it hurt too much to bear,
the guilt and shame - she slew.

She suffered long enough she said.
She'd no more be a slaveTo another's demented wishes. Her
body she would save.

Although it's hard to start anew,
it's easier than it seems.She's got the strength and hope,
I know, to reach out for her dreams.

110

Where is the proof Jehovahs people abuse children?

by Bleep in

here is what this "special topic" describes with deadly false propaganda.. "a person might ask why we would single out the witnesses in this matter.

as with other fundamentalist cults, the watchtower goes by the bible advice only when it comes to exposing crimes regarding children or anyone else, that there must be two or more witnesses to a crime.

since abuse and molestation are rarely seen by anyone other than the perpetrator and the victim (and the victim will rarely testify against himself), perhaps hundreds or thousands of cases have gone unpunished, and the perpetrator has not been brought to the police, and the congregation has not been told.

Lady Lee

Bleep What exactly would you accept as "proof"?

10

Are All Organized Religions Cults?

by HomebutHiding in

jw
friends

even though it has been years since i last stepped into a kingdom hall, it is only recently that i have accepted the idea that the jws are a cult.

the word cult has such a horrible connotation, i mentally reserved it for the most overtly offensive groups.

then, last evening, i went to mass with my husband.

Lady Lee

There are many definitions of the word "cult". Some define it to include anything but mainstream Christian beliefs. At the other end are those who believe that all high control groups who specifically use mind control techniques on recruits and members are cultic.

After being in a high control group like the JWs it is normal to make a lot of comparisons. Some beleifs and practices seem uncomfortable to us for a number of reasons. First we were heavily indoctrinated to view other beliefs as unChristian. Some groups do practice some mind control techniques - some of the time. Even though some religions might be be mind control groups it is possible for the particular church to be led by someone who is. Knowing what the criteria are and being able to identify them can help you sort out the programmed discomfort from actual mind control. Being able to recognize the difference can allow you the freedom to explore different churches more openly.

You might want to take a look here for some more info

http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/forum/thread.asp?id=31235&site=3

9

Mind Control Techniques and Jehovah's Witnesses

by Lady Lee in

most of the original research on mind control comes from studies done not on religious groups but rather on chinese re-education techniques used on dissident chinese and political prisoners during the 1950s.

robert j. lifton wrote "thought reform and the psychology of totalism" (1961; new york: w. w. norton).

he was studying the process and effects of mind control techniques on individuals.

Lady Lee

Most of the original research on mind control comes from studies done not on religious groups but rather on Chinese re-education techniques used on dissident Chinese and political prisoners during the 1950s. Robert J. Lifton wrote "Thought Reform and the Psychology of Totalism" (1961; New York: W. W. Norton). He was studying the process and effects of mind control techniques on individuals. The work that he did was remarkable in that when you apply his "eight criteria for thought reform" to almost any group you can identify which groups fall into the category of using mind controls on their members. Some people might say that all education is a form of thought control but the reality is that thought control techniques rob the person of their ability to think, feel, and act in ways that are uniquely "them". The individual takes on a group identity which is wholely dependent on the present ideology of the leaders. If that ideology changes tomorrow the individual en masse change their thinking to adopt the new ideology without question.

Years later when Lifton was presented some information by Steven Hassan, an ex-Moonie, on the indoctrination techniques used by the Moonies, Lifton replied "What you are telling me is so much more sophisticated than what the Chinese did in the 50s. Its like a hybrid mutation of a virulent virus strain!" (Taken from "Combatting Cult Mind Control" Steven Hassan P 28).

EIGHT CRITERIA FOR THOUGHT REFORM

Milieu Control
Milieu control takes over human communication from both within the group and outside the group. The leaders decide what information you can and cannot have. Eventually the process is intense enough that the individual begins to control their inner thought processes not allowing forbidden thoughts to be entertained in their own minds. There are controls in place both within the group to limit access to everything a person sees, hears, reads and writes. Peer pressure is used to maintain the control. And the last aspect of milieu control is implanting a fear that the only place you are safe is inside the group; that people on the outside will not understand.

Awake! Jan 8, 1998: "So, when it comes to reading or watching TV, it is good to examine your habits. . . Some have been able to take stock of their reading and TV intake and have eliminated material that cluttered their minds and also their homes.. . Keeping life simple and uncluttered was advocated by the greatest man who ever lived, Jesus Christ." and "Immoral individuals use the Internet to pursue their sexual perversions and to contact willing partners or innocent victims. Others use the Internet to promote their own personal agendas. Apostates also create Web sites to catch the nave. . . one has to recognize the harmful influences out there, including pornography and apostasy.. . . We have to realize that many Web sites may not be immoral or dishonest, such as chat groups, are a plain waste of time. From all such, stay away!: p 12

These are common examples of how the Society (WT organization as opposed to members) controls the information that members get. Members are STRONGLY discouraged from associating with non-members and can be disfellowshipped for talking to ex-members. They can be disfellowshipped for having material written by ex-members. Reading, watching or talking about forbidden topics can result in being thrown out or disciplined. (external control).

People are even counseled to not even allow themselves to think about these things (internal control)In the August 1, 1997 Watchtower there is a whole article on how to control your thinking so as not to dwell on forbidden things. They use scriptures to back up everything they say and to instill fear of dire consequences if not obeyed.

Mystical Manipulation
Leaders who use mind control techniques almost always claim that they are agents of some "higher power" or force. Their purposes are higher, more pure, uniquely righteous, and exclusive. By claiming this they can then claim that they are the ONLY path to salvation. Since members are convinced that they are the ONLY chosen ones, whatever they do to enhance or put forward that belief is acceptable. It also allows members to use deception or playing with words to hide their real purpose.

Witnesses are often told that since they alone have found the truth if they left there would be no where for them to go for salvation. They are constantly reminded that they have the truth and they are the ONLY ones who have it. This special status allows them to play with words. For example; if you were to ask any witness who came to your door whether he was there to try to convert you, he will say NO, knowing that is exactly why he is there. Witnesses go door to door in the hopes of finding people who they can convince and train to join them. Sounds like converting people to me both then and now. They will say that it is God who acts on the person and that somehow negates what they do.

Demand for Purity
For groups that use these techniques the world becomes divided into "us" and "them". We are right, absolutely good, pure, chosen and everybody else is wrong, absolutely bad, evil and doomed. To maintain your status in the group as one of the chosen you must continually prove yourself worthy by conforming to ever changing beliefs. The demand for purity also permits leaders to expel those who do not absolutely conform. The need to conform in thought, feeling, and behavior would move to get people to confess if they personally did not conform in some manner.

Jehovahs Witnesses will disfellowship any person they deem as a threat to the demand for purity. That is what happened to me. To prevent the truth from coming out that one of their leaders was an abuser, they threw me out.

Confession
Many group require forms of confession. In a thought controlled group this takes on intense dynamics. In these groups confessions can go on for hours with constant criticism all with the goal of the individual acknowledging that they have not conform to the group ideology. The individual must surrender any sense of self and go back into the group mentality.

After having gone through this process which lasted for three sessions over three days each session lasting 2-4 hours in length, all I can say it was grueling. At the end I almost fainted from exhaustion, fear, degradation shock and confusion.

Sacred Science
Since a totalistic group believes that they alone have the only true ideology. Questioning or criticizing the group is the equivalent of questioning God - an absolute sin. It is only the leaders of the group who can interpret the group ideology. For many members there is a sense of security in this because they do not need to think for themselves about the validity of the beliefs. They can simply allow others to do the thinking and they just accept.

The WT Society disfellowships any member that criticises or questions the beliefs set out by the leaders. Honest questions are suspect. The ability to not think when changes are made to the beliefs can be demonstrated by a ruling that I recall. At one point the witnesses were not allowed to talk to or help ex-members. You could get thrown out if you did. I had an uncle who had been disfellowshipped and none of us talked to him. Then there was an change in policy saying that we could talk to them and even help them get to meetings. We were thrilled .We could now at least talk to him. Soon after the Society discovered that by letting witnesses talk to ex-members we were getting information that was against the witnesses and causing us to question some of t what was happening. They changed the rule again to say that we couldnt talk to them anymore. So like obedient little sheep we stopped talking to him. I dont know if anyone ever even told him what was going on. We didnt question it. For a while I felt bad but learned to ignore that feeling and just quietly accept what was taught.

Loading the Language
Most of these groups develop a special use of words that is exclusive to the members. Outsiders would not know what these words meant. Using the words will help members identify other members. A second purpose of special words is to segregate members from non-members. If people do not understand how words are being used it is difficult to communicate. A third purpose of this special language is to stop the thinking process. By using these words or sayings the individual does not need to consider a point. It constricts the language which in turn constricts thought, therefore making it easier for the group to maintain control.

As a witness if I was in a strange group and wanted to know if there were any other witnesses in the group I could ask a carefully worded question which would be picked up by other witnesses in the group. This serves one purpose to find other witnesses but a secondary purpose would be to identify people consider not proper associations. I know that after I left the witnesses I had to learn how to talk to people all over again. My mind was so full of these special language that I had to stop myself constantly to remember that most people would not understand me. The third part - thought-stopping - prevented me from thinking. If somebody said "So-and-so was disfellowshipped" a normal response would be Why? What happened? Some curiosity. Witnesses will stop themselves from thinking normal questions like that because it might be seen as questioning the societys decisions which come from God.

Doctrine over Person.
Group ideology ALWAYS takes precedence over the individual. If a person questions the group ideology then the person is made to feel like there is something wrong with them. It is always turned around so that the individual is wrong and they are made to feel guilty.

Interestingly witnesses who have studied the Bible and come to a conclusion that the society does not teach is accused of either questioning God - a sin, or "jumping ahead" (understanding what God will help us to see in the future - such understanding is only given to leaders). IN the example I gave previously about my uncle, nowhere was any consideration given to the feelings of either those shunned or the members who had to give up a second time relationships with family or friends who were no longer members.

Dispensing of Existence
According to totalistic groups they have the right to decide who belongs and who doesnt Those who belong will be saved or honored; those that dont are condemned. This instills fear that if one leaves the group one is doomed.

In spite of the evidence the elders (leaders) in my congregation decided that I was unfit to belong and disfellowshipped me. I firmly believe that if the members knew all the facts and were to decide the decision would have been very different. According to the society I am evil and my only concern is to draw others away from "The Truth" and I will die for my apostasy.

31

Emotional Blackmail and JWs

by Lady Lee in

emotional blackmail is a form of controlling one person to gets ones needs met.

a blackmailer may use direct or indirect threats against us to get what they want regardless of our opinions or feelings.

the one great threat is: if you dont behave the way i want you to, i will make your life miserable.

Lady Lee

Trot Just click on the globe under my name - it will take you to my website.

LDH Thanks for the link.

Many of the issues dealt with in CODA programs are very similar and it isn't difficult to reframe the issues in terms of an abusive organization.